Abolish the Catholic Church Now!
Comments: 40
You’ve probably read by now that, to quote Steve Bradshaw’s article in The Guardian titled Vatican: condoms don’t stop Aids —
The Catholic Church is telling people in countries stricken by Aids not to use condoms because they have tiny holes in them through which the HIV virus can pass - potentially exposing thousands of people to risk.
The church is making the claims across four continents despite a widespread scientific consensus that condoms are impermeable to the HIV virus.
This is absolute madness.
When freedom of religion collides with a disaster of the magnitude that AIDS represents, then it’s freedom of religion that has to go. The Vatican’s stance on condoms effectively turns it into a major public health risk, actively negating the work done by the WHO and hundreds of other organisations around the world. Doctrine cannot be more important than the lives of millions of people.
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Posted to General Rants • 2003.10.10 (Fri) • 23:12
Comments
Posted by Alex 2003.10.10, 23:42
Previously, their positions was that the use of condoms was “unnatural” and agaist god’s will. Basically, saying that Adam didn’t wrap his egg rolls in one so you should not either.
This statement is wrong and dangerous, but you can’t take Roman Catholic Church to court.
Posted by Dysfunksional Monkey 2003.10.11, 00:14
I agree totally. The church is only worried about the church, its control of the people, and the money coming in. Fair play, priests may have other things on their mind, but when it comes down to it, they’re only part of the beast.
And the beast wants to kill its cubs.
Posted by Chuckie 2003.10.11, 00:20
Adam didn’t have the Catholic Church either ..
Posted by Adam Rice 2003.10.11, 00:43
Assuming the point of the church’s opposition to birth control has always been to ensure more little Catholics (which I do), they’ve finally reached the point where dogmatic adherence to the letter of the law violates the spirit.
So on top of being mind-bogglingly cruel and medieval, their position is defeatist to boot.
Posted by Jake 2003.10.11, 00:51
Yikes… This is madness. It’s hard to make a case that ANY religion these days doesn’t have a tad bit of nuttiness.
Posted by Cal 2003.10.11, 01:35
In the face of the AIDS crisis, it’s sex that has to go.
…
Ok, sex shouldn’t go, but people if people kept it within the bounds of marriage, AIDS wouldn’t be a threat.
Posted by James 2003.10.11, 01:47
It’s only black African people that will die. No major loss to the Catholic community.
Posted by Beaty 2003.10.11, 04:22
…We were blown away with this in the office today…
As if Africa didn’t already have enough problems caused by the West, now the Vatican pours petrol on the flames…
However, the Catholic Church has long been a problem in third world countries where not only has it campaigned against contraception, thus adding to an already overpopulated continent, but has been instrumental in the wildfire spread of HIV/AIDS.
In essence the Vatican has been consistently undoing all the good work which organizations like the W.H.O., U.N.I.C.E.F. and any more have done.
Statements like this just go to prove - in my mind - what an antiquated, anarchic and male-centric organisation the Vatican has become. It has very little relevance to the modern world, and little relevancy to the original spirit of the teachings of Jesus.
The whole institution is as senile as it’s poor, pathetic head of state.
…Phew…Rant over…
Posted by Timen 2003.10.11, 06:25
I wonder how they tested this? Hehe.
Posted by Duncan 2003.10.11, 07:34
I’m not a catholic (heck, I;m not even a christian :-)
Why would someone listen to the church on this issue, and ignore it when it comes to sex outside or marriage, or drug taking?
Addmittedly, the thing we should be concentrating on is the ludicrous assertion that the virus is able to migrate through the condom.
“Doctrine cannot be more important than the lives of millions of people” - well… you could argue that their souls are more important… and that the eternity is slightly longer that the average life-span,
Posted by john 2003.10.11, 12:45
Is this the thinking of their ailing leader? If nothing else the Catholic Church needs to review its retirement policy. How much longer are they going to allow someone who can barely say awake more than five minutes to remain in such an influential position? Unfortunately there will still be a lot of people taking very seriously what ever it is the pope says .
Posted by Colin 2003.10.11, 16:37
While discouraging condom use in these areas may be foolhearty, so is encouraging mass groups of poorly educated people to believe that condoms are a 100% preventative measure against AIDS. The vatican’s facts are correct, whether their public policy is smart or not.
Posted by Duncan 2003.10.11, 20:21
While I am aware that condoms are not a 100% preventative measure against AIDS (nor are they a 100% effective method of contraception) I was not aware that the claim that the HIV virus could pass through the condom as if it wasn’t there was true.
If the vatican’s facts are correct, perhaps you could point me in the right direction to investigate these facts myself?
Posted by Beaty 2003.10.11, 21:08
…While - agreed - condoms are not 100% measure against HIV/AID, no safeguard against disease is. The point is that it is a general safeguard that is - on the whole - a preventative measure in the majority of cases (needle infection not being the major cause in Africa, sexual infection is).
By saying that because a safeguard is not 100% then it is not a safeguard at all, one might as well say that all the most used vaccinations used in Africa are likewise useless…
Malaria, measles, rubella, TB, all useless? I don’t think so…Yet they are all NOT 100% effective.
The point is, that without these safeguards the whole of Africa, and much of the rest of the third world, would be a zone of pestilence and death….And the Vatican in it’s position of influence over people of little education is guilty of the most callous case of incompetence, deceit and - even - genocide.
[I am NOT anti-christian or even anti-catholic btw…Just anti-Church, an institution which has very little to do with the doctrin of Jesus Christ.]
Posted by Beaty 2003.10.12, 02:36
…Oh…BTW…
I noticed I used the words ‘Jesus’ & ‘Jesus Chrits’ in my two rants above…Don’t get the idea I am some sort of religious nut because I mentioned him.
I just admire the guy for his Socialist tendancies!
:o)
Posted by n.rotissare 2003.10.12, 07:30
james write in this blog: “It’s only black African people that will die. No major loss to the Catholic community.”
james: i went to yr own web site to see what kind of person would write such a remark. it is not often to be able to see the personal, resume, blog type of details from a person with such a view, so going to yr site was useful to learn what kind of person would say this. i recommend to others that they visit james’ site to learn more about him.
Posted by vinayd 2003.10.12, 13:51
and somehow in the NY Times today david brooks praised john paul, saying
In its statement lauding this year’s winner, Shirin Ebadi, the Norwegian Nobel Committee celebrates her commitment to dialogue and democracy. But where the authors of that statement stop thinking is where the pope picks up.It would be a surreal thing for brooks to write —- if the whole world was not already careening wildly out of orbit. (I live in California, a state in George Bush’s America, and I think I’m beginning to go mad.)
Posted by Duncan 2003.10.12, 16:19
n.rotissare wrote that James write in this blog: “It’s only black African people that will die. No major loss to the Catholic community.”
I read Jame’s statement as a satire on the Vatican’s mentality. Actually, Africa is one of the few places where Catholism (and Christianity in general) is expanding - you could argue it is more about reinforcing the power of the church. They’ve lost the battle elsewhere, so they’re determined not to allow anything that would affect their doctrinal teaching in their one growth centre?
Posted by Scott 2003.10.12, 23:58
According to USAID when condoms are used correctly 100% of the time you get an 85% reduction of risk.
Personally, I don’t like those odds. AIDS infections are on the rise in the U.S. again even with pervasive education on condoms. There has to be a balance somewhere. What if the risk reduction was only 70%? 60%? When would it be a lie to use the word “safe” in reference to sex using condoms? Maybe the language just needs to be more careful. If we would stop saying “safe sex” but rather “safer sex”, or “sex less likely to kill you.”
Posted by Pran 2003.10.13, 00:06
The Roman Catholic Church is always destroying the work of a lot of humanitary organizations around the world.
When Non Gubernamental Organizations do all they work in the Third World, teaching the people how to use the anticonceptive methods, the church arrives later to erradicate all the work of the previos people. It’s terrible, because they only help to expand the AIDS.
Posted by James 2003.10.13, 10:20
Thank you Duncan, It was indeed offered as a satire.
In retrospect I can see how this may have been offensive, and I apologise to Mr Rotissare.
The point I was attempting to make, in not so many words, is that the Vatican is most likely using this campaign in a manner that is not unlike genecide and that the deaths of millions throughout Africa would not have a negative impact on the church in any direct way.
Posted by Myles 2003.10.13, 11:03
Gosh, how dare the Catholic Church!
Posted by starlight 2003.10.13, 14:31
weeping
Posted by cane 2003.10.13, 17:51
The Catholic church’s number 1 growing geography is Africa. Look up the data on the vatican site. If Africa was not important to it, they would not be pushing their dogma so strongly there. They are sacrificing their own future by doing this, but the “bible is telling them so”.
Religion just continues to kill on.
Posted by Steve Lawson 2003.10.14, 06:21
OK, I really dislike the Catholic Church, and it is obvious that this is mostly a scare tactic (the article quotes a person who runs an AIDS testing center as saying ” “Some priests have even been saying that condoms are laced with HIV/Aids.”“).
But is there a grain of truth here? I seem to recall many years ago hearing that only latex condoms protect from AIDS, and that condoms made of animal intestines do NOT, in fact, protect people from AIDS for just the reason the priests say—the virus is much smaller than sperm and can pass through the condom.
Posted by Jade 2003.10.14, 07:56
It is not AIDS infections that are on the rise it is HIV that is on the rise… this relates to the fact that education around safe sex, safe injecting, and blood aware have dropped off dramatically… thus the younger generation is not paying attention.
HIV is one of the hardest viruses to become infected by. The virus itself is very weak and can only live a number of seconds, minutes, outside the human body due to climatic changes…
Remember it is blood to blood…. you need an open wound for the virus to pass and infect another. The reciepent also needs to have an open wound.
I feel that a lot of you here need to be educated about HIV/AIDS and other Sexually Transmitable Infections.
The catholic church are against condoms etc because they feel that “every sperm is sacred”… remember monty python? They do not believe in practising sexual intercourse unless it is to procreate… hence they encourage celebacy… or procreation which will see the rise of catholic’s around the world and keep their church a dominant force… Kind of logical really aint it when you are a dying a breed.
For the record I have never been baptised and do not follow a religion. A lot of it is common sense, and most here seem to be caught up looking at the flowers rather than the whole garden…
Forget the church… how on earth can you encourage those within your community to start thinking about the issues surrounding HIV, and Sexual Transmitable Illness? How can we get them thinking about what implications it will have upon their lives?
For change to happen you need to offer it to the community and ask them what impact it will have and ask what change so they want to see?
Dont blame, just start to make a change and tell the truth clearly and in a manner that will be understood by the masses…
EDUCATION AND RESPECT.
Posted by Michael 2003.10.21, 16:35
You are all so gullible. One article doesn’t make a story factual.
The Church isn’t saying that condoms never work to prevent AIDS. She’s saying that they don’t always work. She’s also saying that the distribution of condoms has exponentially increased the amount of extramarital sex around the world (including Africa). Why? Because condoms make people feel 100% safe when they are really not.
The Church’s goal is to help stop the spread of AIDS through the most affective method: abstinence.
For example: In Uganda, there has been an intensive AIDS prevention program centered on abstinence. HIV among 15- to 19-year-olds has dropped from 25% of the population in that age group to 9%. In neighboring areas where the prevention program has been condom centered, they’ve seen a rise in those infected.
I’ll leave you with that. I won’t even bother to correct the other ridiculous statements made here.
Posted by denise kayanne doset` 2003.10.25, 06:55
The catholic church has a long history of oppression of christians and non-christains.. they are in the money and property business. that is all that counts to them. they care not that the greatest numbers of catholic countries cannot even provide for the feeding of thier too many children. the papist bastards condoned the halocaust and have made bad blood between protestants and catholics since the reformation. you need only to look a ireland to see the holy war. condoms are not a birthcontrol issue they are a heath issue. celbiates (LOL) should have nothing to say about birth control or sexual health… Now we all know of the pedarasts in the catholic clergy.. the ones who are caught that is. how many are not????
Just in case you didn’t allready know, the claim by the vatican is actually based on (misguided as it maybe) fact.
I don’t know the particulars, but apparently the distance between the latex molecules in the condom is greater than the size of the HIV virus. What prevents the virus from spreading is that it is carried by the larger molecules of semenal/vaginal fluid which cannot penetrate the condom.
So, except for holes in the condom, the HIV virus cannot be spread through a condom.
Disclaimer: This was something I heard during a discussion quite a few years ago. While I have no reaon to doubt the information, if it’s incorrect, I can’t be held responsible.
This especially shouldn’t make people go out and shag like bunnies (or other rodents) with carefree abandon (any more than usual).
you are fooling yourself if you think it is impossible to get aids by using condoms. Condoms break and they can have small holes. Granted not all of them but when you are talking about a disease like aids do you want to take that chance? The only 100% effective way of preventing the transmital of hiv is abstinance. Which the Catholic Church very vocally supports and encourages.
Posted by john faux 2005.03.12, 00:44
THe statement of one bishop doesnt represent the whole church. THe church teaches naturual family planning which is 99% effective, even planned parenthood lists it on their website. THe church is also one of the most active charities on earth, working to relieve poverty all over the place. REmember mother teresa? She was against abortion and contraception. Overpopulation is also an outdated idea. Population implosion is occuring everywhere, and even the third world is rapidly aging. Get some more recent statistics! Money for education, not birth control..Africans can control themselves, they’re not animals, they’re human beings!
Posted by Alex 2005.03.12, 07:28
The rules of God are for our own safety, and the preservation of life, and quality of life….
So outlawing condoms to save the babies which would be contravened only to lead to the deaths of others through AIDS and the birth of even more orphans is obviously contradictory to God’s will— why is he gonna go to the effort of making people out of dust only to rule them with rules which destroy his good work?
The catholic church is full of people just like us; yeah, maybe at times they loose sight of what’s important and what Gpod wants, but they see how God gave us rules about not aborting babies and staying married to one person for life and the want to see that honoured- in line with God’s teaching and with what’s best for us…
I think this quote is mis representative, and taken out of context, and as Christian who’s growing up in a world and constantly being shocked by the stupidity of man kind and indeed churches, i’d like to say that Christians aren’t always, and shouldn’t claim to be any more right than any one else.
It’s a religion about God loving us, forgiving us and fathering us… wanting the best for us. People loose sight of this, or try too hard sometimes, but don’t judge God by men.
he’s a cool guy, really, he is…
:) www.smile-jesuslovesyou.org/admin for more sensible bloggage than this paticular catlick minster!
Posted by Trev 2005.04.02, 01:07
Hmmmmmm, your sentiments are well meant I’m sure, but tossing in statements about ‘God’s will’ and how he’s a father figure is just plain wish fantasy. Look, when you kneel and pray you have no idea if anyone’s listening. I’m glad if it makes you happy, but I get angsty when enough of you gather in the sight of your imaginary friend to be able to wield power over others. This is dead wrong.
Churches have always existed because one group of people wants power over another. They play on humans’ basic need for certainty in this life, when the truth is that there is none. We don’t know why we’re here, where we came from or where we’re going, so we choose to follow fantasies that make us feel that there’s a purpose in all this and which make it easier to get through each day. We invent Gods who seem like the parents we’ve outgrown, who take care of things.
I say to all religious people, please, be grown-up and admit to yourselves what you know in your hearts. That all we have in this life is what we see, this earth and each other. If God sends me a telegram or posts on this site then I’ll recant with the rest, but until then, I’ll muddle through in honest ignorance of whatever forces steer our lives.
And hey you religious people! Stop worrying about the after-life! We were all dead before we born and it really wasn’t that bad, now was it?
Posted by God 2005.04.02, 01:10
Trev. I know where you live. We may need to have a serious little chat soon…
Posted by Joe London 2005.04.25, 10:15
I don’t like the Catholic Church at all, as you will be able to notice if you visit my blog. However, I’d like to raise a very simple point: what about the ‘secular’ authorities: should they not start prohibiting spreading Catholic buls… opps misinformation? I mean thsi people are allowed to run schools, universities, they probably receive public funds.
I know, in the US in particular, the problem now seems massive and of difficult immediate solution (given the fact that there is a born-again president): abstinence-only programs, idiotic and money-wasting, prove that, unfortunately, even in the world of politics, ideology seems to win over facts, at the expense of people real interests.
This is pretty sad.
Posted by teenager 2005.08.25, 16:58
while it is the roman catholic church behind these claims about condoms and contraception on the whole, isnt this just a show or example of the sort of arrogance displayed by all churches while they seek power and twist jesus’s words to get what they want and think is right? like wars, for example world war 2 and the nazi’s opposition to jewish people was caused by religion (obviously). all wars are called “a religious war” by some one. personally, this is why i currently dont follow a religion.
i am not saying that people are nescessarily stupid for following churches, but you have to question thier motives and reasoning for standing behind churches and their structure. i think that people would be better off with just a bible and defining it for themselves without the church structure and the money squandering officials. i think churches are just another way to segment society, control people and distance cultures. sad eh?
Posted by Ed Garcia 2005.10.08, 16:26
To the one who said that there are no African Catholics, he or she would be sorely mistaken. The official count of Roman Catholics in Africa is 115 million. There is little debate over the use of condoms in stopping the spread of HIV, but suggesting abstinence and an end to polygamy in Africa would go far to stop a very horrible disease
Posted by Karen 2005.12.05, 06:59
“There are not one hundred people in this world who dislike Catholicism, but there are millions who dislike what they mistakenly believe Catholicism to be.”
~Archbishop Fulton Sheen
I am trying to be open to other view points and to constructive criticism, however, until you read what the Catholic Church has to say, and why, I don’t think your critiques and options are persuasive. The Catholic Church is more than a man, or a doctrine, and can’t be simplied or torn apart by insults and name calling. I challenge you to engage in dialogue with a Catholic on some of these issues and don’t hesitate to dig for real answers. I warn you though, the hard part is not the dialogue; the hard part is finding a Catholic.
Posted by Rustee 2006.02.19, 11:33
I am not Catholic but totaly believe in what they have to say about not having sex out side of marriage. That is because they are going with the Bible on that one. If people would stay virgins and marrie virgins and stay with that person then we would’t have abortions, illegitimate children, divorces, broken homes, children torn apart because of them, all these STD’s, all the hurt and sorrow that we continue to have and pass on to our children. One man and one womon for life. That was the plan from the beginning and we are reaping the consaquences of not following the plan. The only one that will work.
Posted by sunday john egbulingo 2006.03.04, 02:59
the use of condoms among the unmarried it is wrong. therefore the church should encourage the youth to stay away for sex before marriage. how can religious leaders encourage the use of condoms without at the same time encourage sexual immorality. it is proper for a priest or pastor to promote the use of condoms to his/her members.however the government has right to promote the use of condoms and the church too has right to promote abstience which may not include the use of condoms. by so doing that will solve the problem that the goverment are having with the church concerning use of condoms.
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