Skycar
Comments: 46
I hadn’t seen Wired magazine for a long time and a friend happened to pass along the June edition or episode or whatever they call it. This picture of a Moller M400 Skycar is a standout moment. What a terrific looking thing. I’d love one for island hopping (I’d need some islands), but I bet they’d annoy the hell out out of anyone on the ground who had to listen to them coming or going all day.
Imagine a sky full of really, really big hair dryers and jet-skis off a beach suddenly seem like mere mosquitos.
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Posted to The Good • 2005.06.21 (Tue) • 21:47
Comments
Posted by Stephen 2005.06.22, 06:35
A Skycar in every garage (something Moller seems to want) would make traffic accidents a bit messier. Skycar crashes will make SUV rollover fears seem quaint.
Posted by Ryan C 2005.06.22, 06:51
The Moller Skycar is a cool-looking idea, but I have tired of it. Why? Well, Paul Moller’s first prototype was built in the 1960s. He’s been working on this idea for decades. I could probably dig up some 80s-vintage Popular Science covers with Skycar prototypes, looking much like this one, on them.
To his credit, the Wikipedia says they’ve actually done test flights now, and the recent models have included the claim that they would basically be designed to fly on full autopilot in order to avoid messy crashes.
I’m still every skeptical, but it has not stopped being cool.
PS: Found your site via Supafamous, so he’s the one to blame.
Posted by Kyle 2005.06.23, 13:02
I saw the Discovery Channel special on them. They seem pretty wicked, although I think it will continue being a far-fetched idea for a few decades until they can lower the price from x-million dollars for one car.
And yes, Moller plans on making all of them 100% autopilot, you would be playing game boy or something while inside of it.
Posted by Ben Shewmaker 2005.06.24, 01:53
While they certainly seem cool at first glance, I also can’t help but wonder about the noise pollution from these things. Maybe someday we’ll have noise pollution from cars on the ground, and cars in the sky? Not to mention crashes (computers malfuntion too) would likely be much worse than grounded car accidents.
A more feasible alternative to transportation in the U.S instead of newly designed cars would be a most welcome sight. Hybrid cars, hydrogen cars, even flying cars. What is it with Americans and their cars?
Posted by Christopher 2005.06.24, 14:57
No matter how much a newer or better designs or even concept comes out for cars, Americans will still stick to their beloved gasoline motor vechiles. Hybrid cars are now out, after years of gossip and speculation, they are out people! Yet how many people have them or are even thinking about getting one? I’ll tell you one thing, I am in the military and I know of NO ONE that wants one or thinks that they will get one in the future, ever. The fact is that the gas powered motor car isn’t going no where for a very, very, very long time. Just my opinion.
Posted by jh 2005.06.26, 14:20
Kyle —
> you would be playing game boy or something
I’d be disabling autopilot and playing fly-boy!
But I have enough trouble with speeding tickets on the ground. Imagine the possibilities in the sky.
Christopher —
> The fact is that the gas powered motor car isn’t going no where for a very, very, very long time.
We may not have much of a choice about this in the not-so-long-run, but I take your point.
I recently spent a week in New York being driven around various borroughs by a friend who I think is a pretty good driver. Part of what makes him a good driver is a V6 engine he can press into action when he finds that the car suddenly needs to be somewhere other than where it is.
I initially found New York traffic quite hair-raising, but quickly developed a respectful admiration for the way people drive: very assertive without being aggressive (well, without being too aggressive), decisive, direct, no nonsense. I saw very little bullshit on the roads, although the gods help you if you’re not willing to play tough like everybody else.
I loved the way that right-of-way rules at intersections have been superseded by the simple protocol of who arrives first. Out of the borderline chaos of New York traffic, some self-organising principles begin to emerge. It seemed organic and triumphant to me.
The glory of human adaptability aside, if your daily traffic enironment is anything like New York, you’re going to feel a whole lot safer and participatory knowing you can stomp down on the accelerator and get out of trouble should the need arise. You’re right I think that for the majority of people, this mans a big gasoline or diesel engine.
I happen to think that our oil addiction and inability to change will be the end of us, and sooner rather than later. I’d love to see widespread adoption of hybrid or alt-energy vehicles (but I’d hate to see New Yorkers slow down any: I liked them fast and pushy).
Posted by extagen 2005.06.29, 07:46
The moller sky car is a cool idea but if you’re waiting for moller to actually market this thing….FORGET IT! This guy has been milking this idea of his for almost 20 years. Nothin ever changes. If you really get down to it we already have a skycar that does everything his machine is suppose to do. It’s called a helicopter!
Posted by dcma 2005.07.04, 21:57
I dont know about you guys but Ive been watching this for years and I gotta believe if the thing could actually fly old moller would be takeing it out on the weekends instead of tethered flight test (if this has been his life long dream after all) This is just a publicity hook to get people interested in their company , and to get investers to hand over their money for the more mundane “freedom Motors” venture. I was gonna order one with the stipulation that they fly it my house and drop it off.
Posted by Yellowbird 2005.08.21, 06:25
I was wondering what people were saying when Henry Ford was discussing his ideas before production capabilities existed for the gasoline engine driven “horsecar”? It’s easy to write off ideas, especially if they are not your own.
There are many prototype “flying cars” in the works even as you read this. Secondly, I highly doubt that NASA, Langly Airforce Base and Boeing would bother with a concept like this unless there were more to it than meets the eye.
Posted by Nat 2005.08.22, 21:10
Having just come home from a ride with a competant private pilot, I have to see this as a very expensive joke. Fine, autopilot will keep it flying level, but the knowhow and sense of responsibility ESSENTIAL to survival flying at 120 mph, makes this thing a killing monster at 300+ mph.
Posted by Bill 2005.08.25, 02:07
Ok, let me explain these things to everyone:
“Mollers” have been a huge issue between me and my friends. One kid says they’re the- ya know. Mollers will never work.
Posted by Pole 2005.08.25, 16:13
If you really get down to it we already have a skycar that does everything his machine is suppose to do. It??s called a helicopter!
Posted by pyro 2005.09.01, 07:23
funny people think every thing is a joke, vtol is a proven technology, and from i read skycar aint autopilot its autoassisted as in you fly but computer prevents errors, and also what one person said about ford, ford did not invent the car it is older than him, he invented the assembly line making car production more practical car was aropund before ford was born, next youll try say harley invented motorcycle, or edision discovered electricity
Posted by Dan 2005.09.05, 05:19
Its a scam. Really. The SEC has even filed claims of fraud against Moller.
http://www.sec.gov/litigation/complaints/comp17987.htm
People say “Oh, its already flight testing!” It isn’t demonstrating any more flying capability than anything you could build from a couple lawnmower motors in your garage.
Posted by Todd Watson 2005.09.30, 13:05
First of all, that frauf filing on moller is a load of BS. If you read the filing, he is being accused of fraud and misleading statements for telling investors “their stock value would increase sharply after certain criteria are met”, they said this was misleading becaue he did not have anything to warrant such a statement. That is probably the government at its best. You should realize that Lockheed Martin seemed to either want to get involved or got in involved in that project. You should also note that I am in legal turmoil over that skycar project also as some government friends of lockheed want the project I have been trying to develop that needs the skycar to be in production before it can happen. I ran into a problem with some guys who are much better friends with the government that I am, and my project is worth a fortune. They are probably the very same guys I am having problems with. Plus I doubt if that filing is real as he works closely with NASA to help him get it approved by the FAA.
Posted by george papuchis 2005.10.06, 09:04
ARE YOU STUPID OR SOMETHING !!! OFCOURSE IT’S GOING TO HAPPEN…AND I BELIVE IT WILL BE SOONER THAN MOST WOULD BELIVE….IV’E GOT MY SHARES OF “MLER” IM JUST WAITING AND READING….I WONT BE LEFT BEHIND ON THIS ONE !!! :) G. PAPUCHIS
Posted by george papuchis 2005.10.06, 09:07
P.S. IT ANYONE HEARS ANYTHING NEW….PLEASE EMAIL ME AND LET ME IN ON IT !!! THANKS….G. PAPUCHIS GPAPUCHIS_999@YAHOO.COM
Posted by Gopher 2005.10.12, 00:19
SKYCAR - hmmmm, It isn’t a helicopter, but it’s more like VTOL/VSTOL (Marine Harrier jump jets are a good example)
From what I have read, and if it has enough safety features to not be too dangerous, and the price comes down much lower, the skycar will eventually be the transportation of the future. I am not sure what technology will be available, but if anybody has ever seen the “Jetsons” transportation, I suppose that it could be called a “skycar”, and though it might be “science fiction” now, so was “walking on the moon” a hundred years ago. Whoever can mass produce a safe “skycar” vehicle at a publicly acceptable price in the future with this new technology that allows you to soar and hover (better than VTOL) and even more easily than a controlled helium balloon - he/she will be the next Henry Ford of the Transportation industry - you can bet on it! Your thoughts? Buy stock in this company, I don’t think so. He appears to have the idea, then why has he not found the capital backing to begin mass production, and bring the price down so the average citizen can afford it. As long as he sells prototypes for $1M +, he isn’t going anywhere, and nobody is buying. IMO
Posted by BAG 2005.10.12, 13:20
Well, well, well. Let me get this straight. Moller has invested his life and every dime that he can manage to scrape up to make a “flying machine” that is user friendly, extremely safe, fuel effiecent, affordable to the masses {eventually} and can be operated via a on board computer {no pilot required} Unless he has personally soaked you for an absorbent amount of money I do not understand why anyone would complain. Dreamers who take agressive action ALWAYS succeed——-ALWAYS! History does not lie. This by the way works on both sides of the coin I.E., Hitler and the Wright brothers.
Posted by Harold Young 2005.10.16, 02:04
I think that the flying car’s time has come. I heard Mr. Moller on Coast To Coast A.M., and while I am too old, 63 years old, and too poor for the Skycar. I have heard these ideas from childhood. It was supposed to happen in the 1960’s and or 70’s. Alas it did not. I am praying that the Skycar is a huge success. Come on, keep it the work on this baby.
Sincerely, Harold Young, Columbus, OH
Posted by Harold Young 2005.10.16, 02:06
I think that the flying car’s time has come. I heard Mr. Moller on Coast To Coast A.M., and while I am too old, 63 years old, and too poor for the Skycar. I have heard these ideas from childhood. It was supposed to happen in the 1960’s and or 70’s. Alas it did not. I am praying that the Skycar is a huge success. Come on, keep up the work on this baby.
Sincerely, Harold Young, Columbus, OH
Posted by studebaker hoch 2005.11.14, 04:43
I’d love to see how one is supposed to perform an upset recovery in one of those flying bricks.
What if the engines shut down in flight?
What if you simply run it out of gas? In normal aircraft, you would glide down to a safe, if embarrassing, landing. This machine has no glide capabilities at all. You run this thing out of gas at altitude and you’re going to wish you hadn’t.
Maybe install a big recovery parachute? It would be better than nothing.
Posted by cwatts 2005.11.23, 01:42
I think you all need to step back for a second, in order to even fly a sky car, everyone will have to get a private pilots license, IFR certified and multie engine rated before they can fly around legally. The skycar, however create an idea is very much an aircraft. In order to be safe, a pilot, despite the autopilot feature will need to communicate directly with local towers and large airports. And the m400 is a realistic. 2007 I will be getting mine. Thats right, actually my father, who has been a recreational pilot for 5 years has put a downpayment on the skycar. And his date is summer 2007. The skycar is amazing in that it is making jet travel very economical. And as you say 400K might seem alot for a skycar, its really cheap when you understand how fast it is for the money. ITs a jet that runs on ethanol. I would say 400K is a heck of a deal. 750 miles per fill up. I cant wait to fly around in it.
Posted by Ethan 2005.11.23, 10:50
Has ANYONE here actually looked at the Moller site?
Most of your questions/ problems would be answered there.
Regarding noise level, propulsion is by large fans, making the Skycar much quieter than aircraft of comparable size.
On Safety: it has 8 engines. Even if 6 failed you could land it safely.
It also DOES have gliding ability. So in the rare case of a total engine failure you could easily glid to a landing from cruising speed.
If you’re flying at too slow a speed to glide to a landing, it DOES have emergency parachutes.
Also, you do NOT need a pilot’s license to fly the Skycar. You will only need a “Power lift” license.
People - do some research and actually know what you’re talking about before you go blindly bashing something!
Posted by Richard 2005.11.27, 02:34
I’ll second that, what are you people thinking! GO AND READ before you make up conclusions. The SkyCar is in a phase of being tweaked and perfected, by the time it gets FAA certified, obviously it will adhere to very high safety standards, and will not be released until those standards are met. When it is certified does not trouble me, i am a very patient man. If flying is not for you, you may drive on 4 wheels for as long as you wish. In my opinion, Moller is the Greatest entrepeneur of all time. I’ll buy every single model released.
Posted by James 2005.12.04, 07:22
I believe small light aircrafts will obsolete soon.
Posted by Alberto 2005.12.04, 14:21
Obsolete??? I guess people used to think that horses would be the human transport forever…and we don’t use them anymore. Don’t close your mind, because we have no idea of what the future will bring to us. I’m pretty sure that flying cars will be the most common transport in a close future.
Posted by James 2005.12.05, 11:08
I meant single engine small light aircrafts will obsolete.We’ll see more skycars in the air.It is much safer than single engine aircraft.
Posted by DWalla 2005.12.20, 10:35
If you read the actual fraud filing.. it’s settled…. so it’s not like the Feds were accusing them of creating a fraudulent product. They wree going after them for illegally selling stocks publicly without going through the proper SEC channels.
Posted by cliff 2005.12.27, 09:54
I will provide the east coast (real estate) service center on 25 acres in Florida. I hope Mr. Mollee reads this and contacts me. I could envision a completely different hub for commuter cars and sky cars. Something like a rental car center. Imagine a world where you rent a car, a flying machine, go hunting or vacationing and land at the site. This would rejuvenate the travel industry. I would love to see a capacity for road travel.
Posted by Keith 2005.12.31, 18:50
C. False and Misleading Statements and Omissions
For example, the Skycar, according to Moller, would allow any person to travel at speeds over 400 miles-per-hour in the uncluttered airspace above the roadways for about the same price as a luxury automobile. In MI investor newsletters, Moller projected that 10,000 Skycars would be sold by the end of 2002.
In reality, the Skycar was and still is a very early developmental-stage prototype that has no meaningful flight testing, proof of aeronautical feasibility, or proven commercial viability.Until this day this vaporware has done nothing than hovering at 3 feet over Moller’s lawn. My son build a hovering saucer. He is 7 years old. Good luck to those who already invested.
Posted by John W Ostler 2006.02.05, 10:02
A lot of people seem to be stuck on the fact that Moller has been spending his life and fortune to realize this dream. If he had only been trying for 5 years, I could understand all the skepticism. But you have to realize that those that are able to keep going, well after the emotion for a project is gone, will almost always be succesful. That’s the amazing thing about human beings. If we see something that can be achieved, somebody will always set out to achieve it. From the tallest mountains, longest travels, to the stars; it’s always about doing it first, better, and the best. This project is with no exception. I support Muller because he realizes his dream and instead of leaving it there like the rest of us, he works to put the foundations under it. That’s much more than any one person, company, or organization can say up to this point. I wish him the best of luck in keeping the spirit of what “could be”, alive and well for all of us to enjoy.
Posted by Phreak328 2006.02.17, 03:54
“His fortune” ? How about other people’s money? Read: INVESTORS. After following Moller’s Skycar for years, it would appear that this thing is about real as the tooth fairy. Every six months or so, Mr. Moller will post a new “development” on his web site - “the nacelles are going great but we are forced to re-configure the existing farthings…blah, blah, blah…” This guy has been promising a WORKING Skycar for ten years now, but for some nagging reason, some “design issue” seems to push back a working vehicle. His only “tethered” flight posted on the web site was several years ago was of such poor video quality that it is dubious that thing was flying at all. Since then, where are the follow-up flights? All we get from his web site are some amateurish illustrations of the Skycar and fanciful images of what life would be like if there were some flying around. Oh yeah, why is this stock trading on the OTC boards? It’s a scam and at some point, this guy will either be indicted in Court for FRAUD or he’ll be exposed as one by his investors and the scientific and engineering community.
Posted by zolo 2006.02.18, 13:11
I like the idea of this vehicle very much. That said, the lack of test flights is surprising. I assume the FAA is holding things up. I would think Moller would have more than 1 copy of the M400 by now, at least two. One should be for aerodynamic testing without the computers. The second would be for the autopilot and all of the fancy mass public stuff. He should make a version for pilots from airports. I’m sure they would sell much better than a Cessna. He could then use the profits to fund the mass public version. This way the assembly lines would already be in place. The cost would already be coming down. When he needs another test platform just go to the assembly line and take the next one in line. Moller’s plan is for these vehicles to talk to each other to prevent crashes. How can he do that with only one vehicle? Something doesn’t seem right; I hope it’s not a hoax.
Posted by Reality 2006.03.04, 06:54
For those of you saying go to his site and read so we understand, wake up. Aren’t you guys reading the information yourselves!!?? This guy has been working on this for 20 years and has produced no valid results. The only progress he makes is when he updates his website every year. Moller claims he has put $50 mil into this over 20 years time and all he has is a fancy fiberglass body that can hover for a few minutes as long as it has a safety tether. Put it into perspective - the Scaled Composites group (with Paul Allen financing) built a little thing called SpaceshipOne for $23 mil (probably in under 8 years, the Ansari X Prize wasn’t even established until 1996) and launched it into space. You could honestly pay a group of college students $10,000 (add a few $1,000 to have some body shop create a fancy body for it) to accomplish what Moller has - a tethered flight of a powered-lift vehicle. Dreams are important, but realizing when you’re being suckered is just as important.
Posted by Seth 2006.03.08, 19:48
The sky car is a decent idea but it’s time hasn’t arrived yet. I’d assume the need for airborne transportation is fuelled by Sci-Fi notions. We haven’t reached civilization levels that would demand a life where one lives in the air and probably never comes down to the surface. Imagine a Manhattan with titanic skyscrapers that house homes, schools, hospitals … basically a community in the skies. That’s when the sky car would be practical.
I believe that hybrid cars are the way forward - we’d make the planet greener for us and the future generations, and pull the rag under the feet of corrupt systems that hold economies hostage using oil.
Posted by fromer emp 2006.03.16, 05:06
Having spent almost a decade working for this guy, I can tell you it’s a dilusional scam. I think Moller believes it can work, but he has no idea how, in as much as the details are concerned. he has always been trying to push a “showroom” looking product, usually non-functional. There is NO power plant in production for this vehicle. The unit which has hovered briefly (now three years ago…) was powered by one of a kind (eight of a kind :-)) hand tweaked engines.The design is changed (improved?) every few years, just to keep the program going - meaning putting money in Moller’s pocket. He has made a thirty-plus year career out of this scam. The sad thing is that a few of the ideas and machines (like small robotic flyers) coming out of Moller might work, but that would mean actually building and selling a product - the last thing he wants to do. Hundereds of people have come and gone at Moller, many of them very talented and dedicated. He systematicly prevents their work from becoming a reality - that’s why he can’t keep anybody for long, especially these days. Remember that the M400 you have seen is over ten years old now, and has only hovered a few times under remote control, carrying only a few percent of it’s rated payload - read: fuel, electronics, passengers, avionics, etc. Its a scam, pure and simple. He is promising BIG things this year, so get ready to laugh some more….Personally I’m keeping an eye on the engine they are developing which will run on half diesel, and half water. Oh yeah!
Posted by Petey 2006.06.04, 03:18
Do any of you people remember something called 9/11??? This will NEVER happen.
Posted by Nick 2006.07.13, 10:25
I’m sure the technology for the skycar is there (and probably has been for some time). I think the one thing that’s probably held it back from mass adoptation has been the navigation of it. People can barely handle 2 dimensions on the road. Adding a 3rd dimension to our driving would be chaos. So it would have to be computer guided. Basically, a program to control the navigation such as NASA’s Highway in the Sky Program is the real key to getting this thing going.
Posted by Mark 2006.08.09, 01:55
I am an engineer with nearly 30 years experience in the design and certification of light aircraft and business jets. Flying machines have been maturing nicely for 100 years now, and people in the business know what works well and what won’t and why. Make no mistake about it. Paul Moller is a hack and a con man. None of his proposed machines have ever been, or ever will be, capable of the performance he claims. None of them could ever meet FAA certification requirements, for multiple reasons. 400 MPH ? Keep dreaming. Can you make something fly with four ducted fans ? Sure. Will it ever be commercialy feasible ? No. Payload-Range-Speed. Those are your tradeoffs. Safety-Reliability-Certifiability. Those are fundamental absolutes. Could I design and build a car that flies ? Actually I did, in 5 days, with the help of some really talented guys, season finale, 2005, Monster Garage. Is it practical ? No. Molt Taylor proved that 50 years ago.
Posted by Eljay 2006.09.28, 16:37
I remember getting excited over Moller’s SkyCar about 10 years ago. Still waiting. And it appears that absolutely no progress whatsoever has happened in the interim. Hmmmm.
Posted by truth sayer 2006.10.24, 01:52
Hi It’s been going on for a long time. He even inspired others like Mosier (see SoloTrek in google) .For an historical perspective, look at this site. http://downside.com/scams/moller/index.html It’s a 1974 brochure (full of great expectaions) from these guys. Nothing has changed.
Posted by MOLLER LIES 2007.02.17, 06:14
The vehicle you have ssen does not have the dual rotor 150 HP engines, which remain uninstalled and probably unbuilt. Moller has been trying to build a twin-rotor powerplant for a while (20 years) without much success. Other than the magic engines, all the aircraft needs to meet it’s promises is: 1. True fail-safe control - meaning triple redundant sensors, control computers, and actuators 2. Pilot interface - (a cockpit, inst panel, & pilot controls) 3. A fuel tank which holds more than the 8 gal one on board now 4. On board engine management - cooling, fuel management, power generation 5. Cockpit heat and ventillation 6. Working deflector vanes and actuators
Its a scam. You’d be better off investing your money with some nice Nigerian gentleman… :-)
Posted by DANIEL 2007.02.22, 20:22
I think skepticism is a good thing . but then again , how may of us have seen things COME and go with big promises and little delivery. I personally admire Mr. Moller, stick to it attitude. what surprises me most is the fact that bigger companies had never really made attempted at this. I think it’s funny that with all these think tanks none of them our bright enough to come up with such a simple idea. I have looked at the design and I don’t think that this could be any simpler. nothing new is perfect or cheap. but I think that even the skeptics, if you think on some level that this can work than put your money where your mouth is. I believe in some way or another the flying car will become a reality.
Posted by MOLLER HATR 2007.03.07, 00:03
The technology does work - just not as well as Moller says. He lies abour both the capabilities of the aircraft (if you wanna call it that) and his company. Moller has no real idea what he’s doing, except taking money from people. He dangles very enticing technology infront of the world, then milks it for all it’s worth. He has lined his pockets nicely, and wants for nothing, except more money. He pulls silly performance numbers out of his ass, and most people believe him. After all, hes a PhD, and a “perfessor”. Not a greedy, lying, money-grubbing con man. No sir.
Posted by IKNOWTHETRUTH 2007.03.27, 21:19
Update! Check out their website! He’s trying to sell the 20 year old XM-4 saucer, as a rescue and utility vehicle. There’s a new biz plan, which indicates the vehicle can now carry a lot more payload than when it last flew some 13 years ago, with no major change in engine setup. Lots of neat fake pictures of stuff which does not exist, or does not actually function.
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